About to buy a biodiesel...any suggestions?

topic posted Thu, June 19, 2008 - 3:16 PM by  Vanessa
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Hello all,
I am about to buy a 80's 240D Mercedes biodiesel.
I have researched it somewhat a while ago and then the opportunity to acutally buy one
sprung up last night. Does anyone have any suggestions, tips, or possible warnings before i
buy it?

Thanks
posted by:
Vanessa
SF Bay Area
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  • Learn how to change the fuel filter, and buy a couple of spares right away. Keep them in the car. You'll likely use them soon if the car hasn't run bio before. And you'll still use them if it has. Check into whether any of the fuel hoses need to be changed to Viton.. pretty sure they will. This part is less of a rush, just be sure to budget for the labor if you're not going to do it yourself.

    And prepare to spend 10% more on fuel than other diesel drivers, and 20% more than gas drivers.

    Ouch.

    Reading over the universal rules of maximizing fuel economy may help soften the blow a little. (Tire pressure, air filter, easy on the throttle, etc.)
    • Great! Thanks for the advice. The guy who i am buying this car from converts mercedes into biodiesels as a hobby. I am positive that he
      has probably switched filter and hoses already, but i dont ever want to assume anything. I will take note and ask him these questions.

      Yes i am fully aware of the price i will pay. I have been prepared for that. There is a place not too far from where i live that will deliver
      biodiesel in drums. I am thinking of buying a drum and keeping in the back yard. Obviously i have to do my research on this first.

      About a year ago i spent a lot of time researching biodiesel and then put the notion aside because i didnt know anyone who was into converting diesels. Well all of a sudden my opportunity sprang on me, so i need to "re-reasearch" all my information. I am also going to buy a Hanes 1979 240D book, so i can learn as much about my car as possible. I would really like to be as hands-on as possible.

      Thanks


      Again thank you very much for the advice. I am going to keep a journal of useful information.
      • There's really not much of a "conversion" required. All diesel *engines* will run biodiesel just fine. However, certain diesel-powered cars need a few adjustments.

        Biodiesel has a detergent effect which will clean gook out of a fuel tank that's been run with petro-diesel in it for a very long time. This is why people say that fuel filters are needed. After a couple of tanks of biodiesel, most of the gook will be cleared out and filter replacement can happen as per usual.

        Biodiesel attacks rubber fuel lines causing them to crack and leak, or more specifically, rubber that's swollen from being in contact with petro-diesel will shrink when in contact with biodiesel. This isn't an uncommon sort of thing. Various rubbers and plastics will usually react in some way or other to the presence of various fuels and chemicals. One merely has to pick the right material for the right conditions. In this case, viton is the right material and is used for fuel lines in most diesel-powered vehicles since 1996. Anything built prior is likely in need of fuel line replacement.

        Biodiesel also has a higher gel point which is something to consider when storing and using fuel in cold weather.

        Good luck with your car. Old Mercedes are cool. Bear in mind that a 28 year old car is going to have a lot of quirks and foibles that may be difficult to address for someone that's not mechanically inclined, but it seems like you already knew that. I suppose my point is that it's not just an "appliance" like most modern cars.
        • Great! Thank you for the helpful suggestions.

          Mon, June 23, 2008 - 12:51 PM
          I live in Rohnert Park,CA which is just south of Santa Rosa in the North Bay. I am very lucky to live where it doesnt get too cold too often. I am observing the quirks of this car. Pretty soon it will be second nature for me. I have always had cars with strange quirks. The reason i am attracted to the late seventies and eighties mercedes is that they are durable. Its a car you can fix up and if treated right will last a long time. I hate throw away things. In the past i have worked on my own cars (mainly due to being broke). Now i want to work on my own car cuz its fun. First thing i am going to do is see if i can buy a Hanes book. Then bookmark: www.mercedesshop.com where i can go ask questions to other "do-it-yourselfers" about how to fix this and that. I thought the car was already biodiesel but its not so........this allows me the fun of changing everything myself. I think i need to change the primary and secondary fuel pump and the hoses after i run a tank or two of bio. So let me ask this. How large is the biodiesel community in the Bay area?

          Again, thank you for your suggestions.
          • Unsu...
             
            Vanessa,
            About six months ago I bought two older Mercedes for the reasons that you mentioned. I've almost completely restored the wrecked 300CD. I've been using the semi-beater 300TD wagon (which runs like a rocket) as a work vehicle....so it's a longer term project.

            I like the quality and durability of these vehicles, but parts and labor are expensive. As often as possible, the parts that I've used have come from wrecking yards. One example: an oil cooler that cost about $300 new ....cost me $20 because I pulled it myself from a salvage vehicle.

            I've been very fortunate to have hooked up with a 20+ year experience Mercedes mechanic who works out of his home and who is honest, affordable, and knows these vehicles intimately. He freely shares information with me so that I can do more of the work myself in the future. I can't recommend him highly enough, and I'd be happy to pass his name and number along to you.
            (He used to work in Santa Rosa and now lives/works in Clearlake.)

            As Heath mentioned, there isn't much conversion to do in order to run an older diesel Mercedes on bio-diesel. I have a good friend in the Bay Area who has been running his 300D Mercedes on waste vegetable oil for over a year. There's much more to convert and more cost in order to run waste veggie oil, but your fuel cost is significantly less if you're willing to collect and filter waste vegetable oil from restaurants. I'm planning to convert both my vehicles in the near future. You might want to check out the veggie oil tribes to see if running a veggie oil system is for you.

            For anyone in the North Bay Area who might be interested....a few friends and I are possibly going to do a "group conversion" of our Mercedes. We'll work with the mechanic who did my friend's conversion and who has converted over 100 vehicles. If we buy parts and work together sharing the labor ....we can save some money.
            • Hello Michael,
              Yes i would love the mechanics number. My whole goal is to learn enough about these cars to be able to work on them myself. Right now i am trying to find a mechanic for those issues i cant fix myself. I would like to restore my 240d to the best quality that i can. So, i would love to learn from an experienced mechanic the subtle quirks of my car. After i get the car restored and i know that its running great the next step is to convert it to bio.

              Speaking of waste vegetable oil. I was just in Singapore and i noticed that everyone cooks with lots and lots of oil. So i was wondering what they did with the used oil. I have started an import/export business with friend from Singapore so i am curious if its feasible to ship the waste oil to the US? I am going to research this topic a lot more before i consider it. Nobody seems to recycle in singapore so i highly doubt cooking oil is recycled either.

              feel free to email me about the mechanics number
              • Hi,

                I applaud you venture into biofuels for your transportation needs. I took the jump about a year and a half ago when i bought a 1985 VW diesel Jetta. I had to put a rebuilt engine in it as the original one wore out, and a rebuilt injection pump as the old one leaked due to my use of biodiesel, but other than that and a couple of fuel line changes, i've been happily running b99 full time. Well I'm not happy paying $5+ for biodiesel, but oh well. I switch to b20 from my local Safeway when the weather drops below 40. All the Safeway fuel stations here in Seattle now sell B20 or B5 so it's easy to find.

                If you are interested in running waste veggie oil in your Benz, I'd offer up www.greaseworks.org/ as a resource. Justin Soares runs the company and is a helpful resource for all things bio/WVO/SVO related.

                I think the transportation costs of shipping WVO from Singapore, not to mention collecting it locally, might make it too costly to ship to the US for use as fuel. It would be great locally. I'm sure you can find local restaurants that might share their grease with you. I haven't taken the WVO plunge yet as I don't drive long enough distances to make it worthwhile. You need to heat up the engien/WVO before it works and that usually takes 20 minutes or so of driving.

                Best wishes!

                Cheers,
                Marco
                85 Jetta Diesel license "BIOD VW"
          • Hi Vanessa,

            I have been running BD in my VW TDI in Sonoma County on and off for 7 years now. You will want to check with your BD supplier when winter comes and ask about any anti-gel agents they might add. My engine did gel up a couple of times when I was running B100. I had to let the car sit in the sun and wait for things to get warm and fluid before I could move again. Not too big a deal. It just took time. Now I run about 50-75% BD to avoid the problem (and save a little cash)

            I buy my BD in Berkeley at Biofuels Oasis. I'm down there for school twice a week.

            Blessings,
            Deb
  • Re: About to buy a biodiesel...any suggestions?

    Fri, July 18, 2008 - 12:34 PM
    I'm sorry to be a little biatch, but "Biodiesel" isn't a type of car, it's a type of fuel.

    If you call your car "A biodiesel" then what happens when you need to put regular diesel in it??
    Do you feel guilty for not feeding your car the proper food it needs?

    Currently in Santa Cruz, there is no place to get Biodiesel. There's one fuel station that sells B5.. the only B99 was at Pacific Biofuels and now they've closed their doors. So all the locals whose cars have "runs on biodiesel - no war required" stickers on their cars are false-advertising and lying to themselves.

    It's sad because I'd love to support Biod as an independent fuel source, but it's not independent of big oil just yet. It's still got training wheels on and right now it's trying to recover from a nasty spill over the handlebars.

    Where's all the biodiesel?

    Good Guys Biodiesel in San Jose (who have been about as flakey as anyone I've ever met) are currently selling Bio for $5.79/gal.
    Who can afford that?? Plus, depending on what you drive, the fuel economy can be as much as 30% less on Bio.

    So if you call a car, (which resides in SF) a biodiesel... it's much like trying to be a vegetarian while living in a small town in Germany.

    There are many issues right now w/ Biodiesel and not as many solutions.

    I believe it will get better... but let's avoid the gimmicky, idealistic, high-horsey notions and hopefully the disillusionment won't be such a bitter pill to swallow.
    • You're not the same little biatch that cooks up the banging bass outta SC, by any chance? ;)

      If so, here's a small token of my esteem:

      Mountain Feed and Farm Supply
      9520 Mill St./Highway 9,
      Ben Lomond, CA 95005

      Mountain Feed and Farm Supply is a sustainable living country store located in Ben Lomond CA, in the Santa Cruz Mountains. They sell biodiesel, as well as organic farm and garden supplies, and alternative energy equipment. Home of the only solar powered biodiesel pump on the central coast.

      Didn't either Golden Gate or Western States have a station somewhere in SJ also ?
      • Re: About to buy a biodiesel...any suggestions?

        Tue, July 29, 2008 - 12:09 AM
        >> You're not the same little biatch that cooks up the banging bass outta SC, by any chance? ;)

        That would be me. I don't know about banging, but I try. :)

        Thanks for the tip on Mtn Feed & Supply, but they stopped selling bio. At least for now.

        As of a few days ago, the Pacific Biofuels station on Ocean St. in SC has re-opened. I just can't justify spending $5.79/g. (an extra $0.85) for the added risk of running biodiesel in my Dodge truck. My 300TD wagon runs on WVO and I've got plenty of that ready to go so I try not to drive the truck much since it's running on #2 Diesel for now. It's gonna take me a couple months to round up the $4K to convert the truck to run on WVO. Ouch!!

        Not sure why the cost of biodiesel has shot up so much more than even petro-diesel.
        Shouldn't this be some indication that it's having a hard time treading water? no pun intended.

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