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I'm months late on posting this, but I read a great article in Biodiesel Magazine discussing the issue of the limited resources of agribusiness and the economics of big alternative energy of the future.
I'd love to dicuss it if anyone is interested. Compared with some of the stuff I've posted in the past this is a really short article that touches on all the major issues facing biofuels, to include biodiesel but not to exclude ethanol.
I'll post the article here, which is FREELY available to ANYONE online.
Information is free!
I'd love to dicuss it if anyone is interested. Compared with some of the stuff I've posted in the past this is a really short article that touches on all the major issues facing biofuels, to include biodiesel but not to exclude ethanol.
I'll post the article here, which is FREELY available to ANYONE online.
Information is free!
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Sharing Renewable Resources
Sun, January 14, 2007 - 2:43 PMSharing Renewable Resources
By Holly Jessen
www.biodieselmagazine.com/article.jsp
tinyurl.com/t75ud
Can the agribusiness industry stretch to accommodate the demands for global food and fuel supplies? It’s definitely a hot topic. A recent conference, the Soya Summit 2006: Food and Energy for the 21st Century, brought together leaders from both industries for honest discourse about the opportunities and challenges ahead.
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." When Sir Isaac Newton came up with the third law of motion, he was referring to forces interacting with objects.
Today, the well-known physics phrase could apply to the growth of the biofuels industry. As biodiesel and ethanol production ramps up, requiring ever-increasing feedstock supplies, it’s having some profound effects on the agricultural sector—including upward pressure on prices.
“We know that rapid build-up of the biofuels industry has been disruptive to those in the agricultural processing industry,” says Peter Golbitz, president of Soyatech LLC. “We also know that, long term, if biofuels are going to be a major source of fuel in the U.S., then it is going to create an unprecedented demand for agricultural products.”
Soyatech organized Soya Summit 2006: Food and Energy for the 21st Century, where leaders from the food and fuel industries came together to exchange information on supporting both industires’ continued development. The summit was held Sept. 18-20 in St. Louis, Mo. About 250 people from 18 countries attended the conference, Golbitz told Biodiesel Magazine in a telephone interview.
The conference was the first of its kind, says Jacob Golbitz, director of research for HighQuest Partners and brother of Peter Golbitz. HighQuest Partners is the parent company of Soyatech. Conference-goers attended parts of the event as a group but were also devided into two separate tracks, each with relevant information on food and energy issues.
The event didn’t have a pro-biodiesel agenda, Peter Golbitz says. Rather, the focus was on asking the hard questions, such as how to deal with an impending marketplace disruption. “Our goal was to facilitate honest discussion,” he tells Biodiesel Magazine. “… It was not a ‘rah-rah’ event.”
While technology can help expand agricultural supplies somewhat, ultimately supplies are limited. Golbitz says it’s not as simple—as some on the energy side have claimed—to just grow more corn, soybeans and other biofuels feedstocks. “The reality is that just because it is a renewable resource doesn’t mean it is an unlimited resource,” he says.
The summit surpassed expectations, especially considering it was an inaugural event. Soyatech is already planning a second-annual gathering, which Golbitz says could be held in the United States some time in fall 2007. Worldwide interest in this topic has prompted plans for smaller regional meetings rotating through South America, Asia and Europe, he says.
Price Effects
A former ConAgra Foods vice president of economic research was one of two general session speakers at the Soya Summit. Bill Lapp—now president of Advanced Economic Solutions, a consulting company for the food industry—spoke about recent strong increases in demand for commodities because of the ethanol and biodiesel industries.
For about 20 to 25 years, the agricultural and energy markets were fairly stable with only one- or two-year ups or downs, Lapp told Biodiesel Magazine in a telephone interview prior to the conference. Then, around January 2001, dynamic forces hit the market to change that. In the past four years, there has been global economic market growth of about 5 percent a year for a total of 20 percent, he says.
In recent history, crude oil and energy prices tripled, while prices for agricultural products stayed basically stable. That, along with support for the biofuels industry from the government, has led to dramatic growth in capacity. “Profit margins have yet to diminish despite big, big increases in the amount of investment and the amount of production,” Lapp says.
While the biggest impact to the agricultural industry will fall on ethanol’s shoulders, biodiesel comes into play as well. In the coming year, Lapp says there will be about a 50 percent increase in the demand of corn for ethanol, and nearly double the demand for soybean oil and other oils for biodiesel. “Now we are starting to see a tremendous boost in the demand for … corn and soybean oils, and other vegetable oils,” he says. “It’s starting to make an impact for supply and demand for those products, and soon will be having an impact on those prices.”
While markets are always dynamic, the growth of ethanol and biodiesel represents some of the biggest changes to hit the agricultural marketplace in years. Besides laying a foundation for higher prices, it has created more volatility in the market. Continued profitability of the industries will drive the potential for importing biofuels, Lapp says.
Although rising commodity prices aren’t necessarily bad, it is important that the industry understands the implications. “The economics will drive it where it has to go,” he says.
One of the greatest unknowns is energy prices. Several analysts are concerned that the market is only one small disruption away from surpassing $100 per barrel. “There’s a lot of question marks about where crude oil is going to end up—whether it’s going to be $45 or $95—18 months from now,” Lapp says. “That will dramatically impact the profitability of producing both ethanol and biodiesel.”
New Sources of Biodiesel
During one of the energy track sessions, Eric Bowen, vice president for energy and director of biofuels for Sigma Capital Group, talked about biodiesel feedstocks. While the U.S. industry is dominated by soybeans, rapeseed is the main player in Europe, he tells Biodiesel Magazine. Bowen also included palm oil, canola, animal fats, yellow grease, jatropha and algae in his presentation. “Everyone acknowledges that with the growth the industry has seen, there’s only so much of those ‘traditional feedstocks’ that are available, and the growth of the industry will require additional feedstocks,” he says.
Biodiesel producers can use other feedstocks in their business models. However, new feedstocks pose a potential threat to the established biodiesel industry, especially when they are less expensive or have better fuel characteristics, Bowen says.
As an alternative feedstock, palm oil has made the largest short-term contribution to the industry. It’s the second-largest oil crop in the world, following soy oil. “Palm is already contributing a good portion of biodiesel to the European market, and we’re only beginning to see palm biodiesel here in the United States,” Bowen says.
Soy oil, on average, produces about 50 gallons of biodiesel an acre, while palm oil produces more than 600 gallons an acre. Soy oil is also more expensive at $400 per metric ton, compared with about $500 per metric ton for palm oil, Bowen says. In addition, the soy-oil market is dependent on the soy meal produced for animal feed. “Planting additional soya only gets you so far because the oil components won’t work unless there is a market for that meal,” he says.
Of course, palm oil does come with some disadvantages. Besides the political risk of supporting palm oil biodiesel production in the United States, it has a high cloud point, it is not a domestic product, and palm plantations are often under pressure for cutting down rainforests, Bowen says.
The emerging feedstock jatropha, a non-edible oil, has several positive characteristics, including 30 percent to 35 percent oil content, the ability to thrive in most soil types, drought resistance, properties that improve soil fertility and minimum management requirements. On the other hand, it hasn’t been commercially grown in the past. “We really don’t know what the economics and the yields are going to look like,” Bowen says.
Algae is another possible next-generation biodiesel feedstock. Since the 1940s, commercial-scale algae production has been studied in the areas of food production, wastewater treatment, nutraceuticals and greenhouse gas reduction, as well as fuel, Bowen says. Though there is a lot of excitement surrounding algae, there are still production difficulties.
Impact of Government Policies
In one of the energy sessions, Jacob Golbitz talked about the impact of governmental policies. He also touched on a newly released report called “Biofuels 2006: Production, Supply and Reality,” a HighQuest and Soyatech study of which he is the author.
While supply and demand are the major market forces affecting biodiesel production, governmental policies are a third player, Golbitz tells Biodiesel Magazine. Those policies may not be completely determinative of biofuels success or failure, but it’s certainly of critical importance.
In the report, Golbitz projects that biofuels production will grow to more than 16 billion gallons per year by 2015, with biodiesel making up 2.15 billion gallons of the total. In all, biodiesel capacity will displace about 4 percent of the estimated diesel consumption.
A total of 62 percent of the proven reserves of light sweet crude oil, the most easily extracted and refined oil, is located in the Middle East. If Golbitz’s biofuels projections are correct, biofuels production won’t make an impact on the need to import oil from those locations.
With that in mind, biofuels production won’t be able to make the United States close to the oft-repeated phrase “energy independent.” In his report, Golbitz makes the argument that the U.S. government is pursuing biofuels production despite the fact that it knows it won’t significantly impact needed energy inputs. “In absence of any kind of attractive foreign policy, we will pursue whatever domestic policy we can, regardless of how little it’s actually going to help,” he says. “In other words, to do something is better than doing nothing.” It’s a claim Golbitz can’t quantify or prove. “I expect to be challenged on it,” he says.
Another interesting facet of the study is the impact of government subsidies on biofuels production. With subsidies, the break-even point for biofuels production is significantly higher. “It creates an artificial possible price on soy oil or vegetable oil prices in general,” Golbitz says.
Still, though many view the subsidies as a waste of taxpayer money, it’s not an unprecedented level of governmental support. Using Golbitz’s projections on ethanol production, over a 10-year period, a 51-cent-per-gallon subsidy could cost taxpayers $71 billion.
That’s in line with other government-supported “patriotic” projects, Golbitz says. The Apollo Mission cost the equivalent of $122 billion in 2006 dollars. The interstate highway system, which was billed as a defense project, racked up $135 billion.
Golbitz feels the impact of biofuels will be limited without advances in cellulose-to-ethanol technologies. To reduce dependence on Middle Eastern oil, it will require technologies for non-food based fuels.
For more information on Soyatech, visit www.soyatech.com.
Holly Jessen is a Biodiesel Magazine staff writer. Reach her at hjessen@bbibiofuels.com or (701) 746-8385.
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Fri, January 19, 2007 - 2:32 PMThanks for posting, this is a relevant (though not thoroughly researched) article.
I think some very simple arguments show that algae (or other single-celled organisms) are the only biofuel crop with the potential to make a significant impact on petro-use and global warming. Unlike traditional crops, they can be grown in salt water, and use minimal (~100x less) areas of non-cropland (or on the ocean). Algae double in number several times a day, and crop cycles are a few days rather than years.
Biofuels made from regular crops -- biodiesel, ethanol, or biomass for burning -- cannot supply more than a few percent of our energy needs, and they will be competing with already unsustainable farming for rapidly disappearing water and arable land. This is especially true in the tropics, where biofuel production threatens rain forests and other extremely important ecosystems.
Google around and check it out for yourself. BTW, I am going to be creating an algal biodiesel pond @ Burning Man this year; message me if you'd like to get involved...
Love & Light to you all,
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Mon, January 22, 2007 - 3:08 PMPalm oil is a good oil and so is jatropha oil. Palm oil can be grown in Puerto Rico and Florida. Oil palms can be grown in areas where deforestration already occured - soil erosion is taking place.
Biodiesel is a potentially good source of income for 3rd world countries with a lot of debt.
Growing jatropha or oil palms doesn't take a lot of labor intensive farming like soybeans and corn.
My 2 cents :-)
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Fri, January 19, 2007 - 2:49 PMI don't think it's a threat.
No one eats algae that I'm aware of, and how many people do you know eat tofu or soy on a regular basis enough to completely cripple the the supply? Not that much soy sauce is consumed when it really gets down to it; it just sits on the shelf and waits for the 2 times a year people decide they want Chinese or Japanese food. Maybe in China it'll be a problem but China's HUGE. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Fri, January 19, 2007 - 3:18 PMIs no one thinking? Food vs. fuel is a misnomer. The growing of fuel crops on large areas of very marginal land would greatly increase the world's food supply if we can get the big business bean counters out of the picture. Two examples follow:
1) Algae. So we get the bugs out of algae production for biofuel making. What do the present experimenters not want to talk about? That the bulk of the harvested alge is "waste" after the oil is removed. Send it to the land fill? They don't want to talk about this material replacing corn as animal feed because it would hurt the substidized corn market? We are our own worst enemies. Algae press cake goes to hogs; hog manure goes to a biodigester; biodiogester efluent and CO2 output is used to grow the algae. These secondary products give us pork and methane fuel. How much more obvious can it get?
2) Grow Jatropha curcas and harvest the fruit. Dried fruit husks are used to cultivate eatable mushrooms and what is left is mixed with hog food or goes to the biodigester. The seed is pressed for fuel oil and the press cake is detoxified (will take some research) and fed to hogs or used to ferment into ethanol. Then the spent mash goes to animals. Add biodigester into the cycle etc.
Note both the above can produce human food as byproducts. But we can't allow that can we? Food prices would drop! Better poo-poo the whole idea.
Many of these possible cycles could be tried with a touch of research funding. But what do we get? A bunch of idiots sitting around sprouting negativism to defend their established economic interests. Maybe that all these alternate ideas will not work but at least get some people who will give them an honest try to take a whack at doing them! They make sense to me. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Fri, January 19, 2007 - 6:24 PMBiodiesel is probably better tasting/for you than half the food they would make with this stuff anyway....
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Non-linear thinking
Tue, March 27, 2007 - 1:37 PMRoy is right. Too much one-diminsional thinking by the writers, bean-counters and academics.
What will work best is to develop a totally new, holistic production paradigm. But that threatens the status quo and vested interests.
I too think the key is probably in our single cell friends, like certain forms of algae. -
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Re: Non-linear thinking
Tue, March 27, 2007 - 9:13 PMKeep your eye on the price of Palm oil in the next year or so. This is basic economics. Mixing energy and food markets is a terrible idea. Or maybe Hawkeye and Roy live in a special dimension where the price of energy hasnt shot up by .15 a gallon in 2 weeks. -
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Re: Non-linear thinking
Tue, March 27, 2007 - 11:20 PMmasturbation is going to take a STRONG hit from me if palm oil goes up.
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Re: Non-linear thinking
Wed, March 28, 2007 - 2:55 PM@Doctor: You might want to go back and re-read my post, because your comments a complete non sequitur.
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Re: Non-linear thinking
Thu, March 29, 2007 - 12:57 AM*Open mouth insert foot*, my apologies to both of you. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.
Responding to too many things at once and not paying attention.
non sequitur indeed!
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Re: Non-linear thinking
Thu, March 29, 2007 - 1:24 AMThere is a lot of merit in these issues.
There is indeed too much narrow minded, myopic, or quick fix mentality being applied to many environmental issues when a more comprehensive and overall approach would net the best total results environmentally, socially, and economically (The ESE or EASY principle.)
Bacterial and algal processes are indeed crucial to that goal and it only makes sense when you consider that they are essentially small highly efficient and self reproducing factories.
Also the comments about rapeseed and many other "Weeds" being some of the best for biofuel production is important to keep in mind as well. Many such weeds are also good soil builders and have medicinal properties too. Many are food sources for important contributing species such as pollinators and those plants which are homes for natural predators that are needed in an organic program using integrated pest management technics.
It is a much more complex picture and balancing act than most people, even those who claim to know much about biofuels, are willing or able to grasp the full scope of. This why 99% of what you see posted online about biofuel and environmental solutions is wrong.
I do almost full time research on the topic and it there is always way more to absorb.
Another thing to bear in mind is that food production hinges on energy markets anyway, both due to driving the machinery of the ag and distribution industries, and the fertilizer industry. Any biofuel solution has to mesh with those issues and needs as well.
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Fri, March 23, 2007 - 9:23 AMFood vs Fuel is an important issue. However, after doing a bit of research, ive found that there are crops which produce high yeild of oil, and are basically weeds. Flaxseed for instance has a high oil content, and can be grown in places where crops cannot be, such as ditches, hillsides, and otherwise unusable land. It is rediculously easy to grow, and you can get multiple harvests a season. May not be the answer, but it gives me hope and confidence to make my own biodiesel/oil. Some "weeds" are actually miracles.
I have been trying to find the perfect oil plant that can be grown in the midwest, if there are others to consider let me know.
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Wed, March 28, 2007 - 9:47 AMyou guys know about the tortilla riots in mexico city, right?
Ethanol is bullshit to begin with.. in sooooo many ways it isn't even funny.... I am not even going to go there.
BUT.. without fighting speculatively on the veracity of its use... the privileged moralistic North American green neophyte can *try* to save the world... (and I am and I hope to.. but very new on how to be green without hurting others)
but we are so GODDAM myopic, we don't realize that, in our little privileged bubble of making something prosaic like veggie shopping into a commentary of our education and social class....
SORRY RANT TRIGGER OFF --
simple as this, we can try to fix *our* problems.. and be good.. and make change.
but if we don't realize that everything we do can effect other economies and such...
this should sufficiently blow your mind.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6319093.stm
or not.. or totally not.
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Mon, November 26, 2007 - 11:42 PMThought I would dredge this up again as I have seen quite a bit of discussion about this recently, the use of biofuels and their production is going to drive up the cost of food. I'm not sure where this is coming from, but how do you respond to this? Do you let the status quo go or do you argue the point? Is there a factual connection? What discussion points do you use to either persuade or dissuade people of this belief? Curious minds want to know....
I've researched it quite a bit and would be interested to hear what others have come up with. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 7:28 AMWell Todd, the UN websites have quite a bit of supporting information as does comparisons of the commodities trading price indexes over the last several years and which show direct correlation with the assertion that increased use in biofuels from food leads to higher food prices.
It is also supported by evidence from the agricultural sector and federal agencies such as the USDA.
One UN secretary even called food based biofuels "a crime against humanity". There are quite a few news articles about it lately if you do a net search and then look at their references to see if their conclusions make sense. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 7:32 PM>> One UN secretary even called food based biofuels "a crime against humanity".
Amen.
People need to push for algae... soon!
Now is the time where it's getting crucial, so I don't accept the projection that algae becoming viable is going to take 5 years. What if we don't have 5 years?
We are having a big rise in demand now. But, with the upcoming release (in 2008 & even more so in 2009) of a number of full-lines of diesel cars, SUV's and trucks by leading auto manufacturers, there will be a tremendous influx of diesel cars being transplanted on American roads. Many of the people buying those cars will be planning to run them on some blend of Biodiesel, whether it's B5, B99 or anything in between.
So we better do whatever we can, whether it's urging the big companies who are working on algae technology to get ready for it, or at least openly acknowledging that the common, (soil-based) feedstocks are not going to work. Instead of us arguing whether it's working or not, or whether or not it's OK that it's not working, we could be voicing our opposition. I am opposed to fuel interfering and intermingling with the food economy.
If the demand for Biodiesel has already had an effect on food prices and biodiesel supply is already struggling to meet demand, then it's already about time for us to insist on better solutions instead of us supporting the current model, which is a sinking ship. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Thu, November 29, 2007 - 11:34 AMHey Sayr,
I agree completely. Everything you say is at the core of our new biofuels from waste program which we call ORB, Organics Reprocessing and Biofuels.
It has the further benefit of rebuilding soil due to all the precipitated solids left from the digestion process, and which ties in nicely with a secondary biodiesel program.
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Wed, November 28, 2007 - 5:13 PMCould you provide me some links? I know that we have discussed this before, but would like to review some of the information. I also know that the food price increases of the past four years, while in some part may be attributable to the increased use of biofuels, I also am fully aware that due to the oil intensive methods that many farmers use for crop growth, that that may be a factor.
Also, what of the change in climate that may be attributable to a reduced yield?
I agree that ultimately we need to shift away from crop based fuels, to algae or other sources. No dispute there. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Thu, November 29, 2007 - 11:29 AM>Also, what of the change in climate that may be attributable to a reduced yield?
Do you mean that the other way around? Reduced crops being the result of climate problems?
By the way, the biofuels technology that we have researched and designed uses algae tanks as a secondary post processing system which cleans up the outputs and harvests still more energy. The time of standalone applications is past, we need integrated mutually supporting cooperative systems which mimic natural methods and ecosystems.
Here are some links to get you started. Mostly I link to the site itself, not the articles but you can find what you need pretty quickly.
Here are a few links:
UN consultant group about food and fuel issues
www.righttofood.org/
Good article
environment.independent.co.uk/cli....ece
Article about biofuels being a crime
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7065061.stm
Article about how biodiesel can be an environmental disaster when people destroy native habitat to grow monoculture crop plants.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-...7084306.stm
Collapse of the tuna fisheries
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/scien...7040011.stm
Harmful potential of biofuels
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7072386.stm
And there are tons more than I have time to copy. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Fri, November 30, 2007 - 2:40 PM> Do you mean that the other way around? Reduced crops being the result of climate problems?
Err....yes...:-)
I'll take a look at the links.
On the integrated and systematic approach to things I would have to agree completely. There is no room for a use it once and throw it away mentality anymore.
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Wed, December 5, 2007 - 10:02 PMSo I reviewed the articles, and as yet am unconvinced that bio-fuels are driving up food costs.
The primary report that is basically parroted in the further articles makes mention of the possibility, yet in the very same report it discusses the fact that the Mexico Tortilla riots had more to do with the impact of free trade on the maize growers within Mexico. Apparently competition from the US growers drove the local Mexican growers out of business, thus once the market was secured by agricultural interests in the US, the price ballooned due to the reduction in local competition.
The report asks for a five year moratorium on the production of biofuels, yet how do you generate a market where the other technologies can mature and appeal to the economics without it? I would argue that the increased drive to biofuels will actually bring about the change to more productive technologies faster than without.
And even though the UN report decries the environmental damage in the rain forest for the creation of palm oil forests, it at the same time recommends the conversion of vast swathes of African land to the production of jatropha with little regard for the issues of water, or the environment in those locales. It does mention the issues associated with water due to the production of standard biofuel crops, which is relevant.
The report also calls into the fact that the climate change is a major issue of food pricing. The other main concern the report emphasizes is that of free trade or globalization of food trade.
One thing that I take issue with is that the report makes a statement (which is parroted in the other articles), that biofuels are not carbon-neutral, or actually carbon-negative. There are issues with the production of ethanol from corn, but in general biofuels are carbon-positive. Also, this discounts the fact that petroleum in and of itself is carbon-negative.
Certainly we can not continue on our current path of petroleum based society for too much longer without serious consequences being witnessed throughout the world. I would argue that there is less damage to the health and food of the population as a whole from biofuels, than from the atrocities committed in the name of oil ownership (Sudan, Iraq, etc.).
I also agree that we need a rapid shift towards the alternative methods of production, cellulosic and algal, but until there is a proven market and one that makes economic sense, these are not going to be a reality. Thus, the governments of the world mandating change, will actually increase the drive to produce more per acre or per tonnage, which will be the driving force behind the innovation towards these technologies. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Thu, December 6, 2007 - 8:51 AMWell Todd, I am glad to see we agree even on the objections.
The UN is of course far from infallible and has shown repeatedly that bureaucracy gets in the way of intelligent decision making. Many of their solutions over the years have not worked out as well as they intended them to. Most of the ones I have been able to analyze come back to the same old case of someone pushing their pet interests who is just more political rather than being scientifically accurate.
Keep in mind that any given UN report often involves the opinions of several hundred people or more.
Just getting access to the right people to even discuss solutions to various problems takes a ludicrous amount of effort.
The comment that biofuels are not entirely carbon neutral has some validity in some ways, but not in others. It depends on a lot of factors such as soil use and potential net increase in overall energy use. If you use a lot more fuel making them, then they become carbon negative.
I also agree that it is important to keep it in perspective to the damage caused by petro fuels. Overall it is still a better ideas, with a few exceptions where people do really foolish things just to make biofuels.
I also agree that advocating wholesale conversion of an ecosystem is foolish, and is guaranteed to cause a host of unexpected problems such as has happened in Australia with invasive species. The entire approach is all wrong. You cannot just import a lot of plants and suddenly fix the problems facing society.
The political aspect is also why you don't see much from the UN addressing the core problem of consumption/consumerism and conservation because they are afraid of alienating big industry or harming their individual countries earnings in the world market.
>I also agree that we need a rapid shift towards the alternative methods of production, cellulosic and algal, but until there is a proven market and one that makes economic sense, these are not going to be a reality. Thus, the governments of the world mandating change, will actually increase the drive to produce more per acre or per tonnage, which will be the driving force behind the innovation towards these technologies.
Here is something we fully agree on. Consider this as a thought exercise and avenue for research.
1. Tons of organic waste per year in a given country? (trash, sewage, etc.)
2. Average yield of methane from digestion of that material? (usually between 20 ms and 800 ms per ton.)
3. Average yield of usable fertilizer left over per ton?
4. Average yield of organically charge water per ton of processed material?
5. Number of acres of damage land available such as formerly strip mined land?
6. Growth potential of combining 2-5 in a program to grow biofuel feed stock?
7. Environmental benefit of #6 considering added benefit of reclaiming and restoring damaged land as well as reducing cost and energy use to hand that material the way it currently is.
Tally it up and you get staggering potential for clean, renewable energy that is extremely eco friendly and cost effective.
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Thu, December 6, 2007 - 10:33 AM>Here is something we fully agree on. Consider this as a thought exercise and avenue for research.
1. Tons of organic waste per year in a given country? (trash, sewage, etc.)
2. Average yield of methane from digestion of that material? (usually between 20 ms and 800 ms per ton.)
3. Average yield of usable fertilizer left over per ton?
4. Average yield of organically charge water per ton of processed material?
5. Number of acres of damage land available such as formerly strip mined land?
6. Growth potential of combining 2-5 in a program to grow biofuel feed stock?
7. Environmental benefit of #6 considering added benefit of reclaiming and restoring damaged land as well as reducing cost and energy use to hand that material the way it currently is.
>Tally it up and you get staggering potential for clean, renewable energy that is extremely eco friendly and cost effective.
I would love to work with this approach. I think it is entirely ridiculous that we don't do more to salvage the energy that is being wasted in the solid waste stream of our cities. That is an enormous potential that is yet untapped in many areas. We can rehabilitate water, and land and provide energy at the same time.
The biggest issue that is faced with much of this development and design is the cost/benefit that most people look at, but with peak oil here we are rapidly approaching the tipping point. I just wonder if we will be able to make a significant impact prior to the global climate tipping point.
You know, I have a question for you. I have a friend who helps to manage a solid waste treatment facility in Southern California. They already do some harvesting of that waste stream, but he expressed interest to me once on the algal production and energy production at their facility. I provided him a good deal of information, but I think he needs an actual report and analysis that would convince him to make the necessary changes. Would you be interested in working together to build such a report? I'm more engineer than economics, and I think it could be a good model for further expansion. It is in a desert type coastal town in Southern California. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Sat, December 8, 2007 - 9:43 AMAbsolutely. I am actually waiting to hear back from some folks regarding doing much the same thing for another SoCal community interested in building our systems.
I run the Applied Ecotechnical Innovations division of our company and have a lot of this already worked out, which is where I am coming from when I make the posts you see so far.
We also have a tentative advance agreement for the use of several thousand acres of land in Ohio for one of our larger facilities.
So yes, I'd be willing to work with you and them on it. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Sat, December 8, 2007 - 10:54 AMGreat! I'll start some preliminary discussions with him and see what the outlook is. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Mon, December 10, 2007 - 10:56 PMSounds great. Let me know when you are ready or need more info.
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Sat, December 8, 2007 - 11:29 PMSpeaking of methane from landfills. Capstone makes some really cool micro-turbines that some folks run off of methane from landfills. Check it out:
www.capstoneturbine.com/
The smaller ones are also used to power hybrid buses. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Mon, December 10, 2007 - 10:55 PMHey Heath,
I love the microturbines. The water cooled ones work well with methane generation, you can feed the heat you don't need back into the system to increase the rate of gas production. -
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Re: Food vs. Fuel / The uncertain future of biofuel
Tue, December 11, 2007 - 2:20 PMYeah, they are definitely cool. I've seen a few used 15KW units for $10-15k that'd I'd like to get my hands on. The coolest part is the 480V inverter that automatically syncs phase to mains power.
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