Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

topic posted Thu, March 20, 2008 - 10:33 PM by  Deb
www.biofueloasis.com/

2465 4th Street @ Dwight Way,
Berkeley, CA 94710
510.665.5509

I just joined and got my first tank of biodiesel in a long time.
Their BD is made from RECYCLED veggie oil.
That makes me very happy.
Plus it is right on my way to school.

Happy Dance!!!
posted by:
Deb
offline Deb
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

    Fri, March 21, 2008 - 9:50 AM
    whats the price per gallon these days?
    last i used their fuel, it was brown and my truck ran like crap and got 8 mpg. but i am hoping for a difference this time.
    • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

      Fri, March 21, 2008 - 3:54 PM
      you probably either had cold flow issues, or you had a fuel filter clogging (which can happen all on it's own, or because of your fuel tank getting cleaned out). It's unlikely that there was anything wrong with the fuel. The symptoms you describe are those of a filter, either due to crap coming loose from your tank or fuel system, or from cold flow problems.

      Biofuel Oasis goes to extreme lengths to ensure that hteir fuel is ASTM quality (which has nothing t o do with it's color- recycled fuel is usually brown) or cold flow properties (which are determined by what type of fats the biodiesel is made out of).

      Mark
      • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

        Fri, March 21, 2008 - 4:15 PM
        now that #2 is $4.20 pgallon is bd cheaper? back when i could afford to drive a diesel regularly bio fuel oasis was saying that their fuel prices would drop soon, well they went up.... whats up is it cheaper yet? I dont entirely agree with bd, but support local farmers and small biz hence the reason ill purchase half a tank. really my trick is NEVER drive any where... just kidding, I have a kid, he goes to school and some ones gotta drive him around.
        and yes, mark, your right the fuel filter was probably clogged, I have since replaced it and keep a spare in the truck.
        the astm quality thing is really important :)
        • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

          Fri, March 21, 2008 - 5:22 PM
          Yep, I think the fuel is currently cheaper than #2, but the way that capitalism works, the suppliers will probably raise the price.
          • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

            Fri, March 21, 2008 - 7:11 PM
            $3.99/g as of several days ago. Petro is running $4.17 - $4.30 at local stations, probably a little cheaper at truck stops.

            I love it when petrodiesel prices outstrip those of Bio. But taking a more pragmatic view, it may not be all good... at least for your wallet. Once Bio is consistently cheaper than petro, demand goes up, and guess what happens to the price?

            I've been running BioOasis's fuel for over a year. One filter change, no problems whatsoever thereafter. Exhaust smells like dinnertime, and the truck runs smoother and quieter. Surprisingly, my mileage showed no change, +/- 0.1 mpg.

            Oasis has expanded their hours, and will soon move into a real station with morning 'til midnight hours. They do a great job, they're knowledgeable and friendly, unpretentious and doing tremendously important work.

            Really hope you offer one of your 'scaled-up' bio production workshops locally sometime soon, gm. (Like the one upcoming in Illinois.)
            • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

              Wed, April 23, 2008 - 8:04 AM
              $4.54 per gallon. for bio-d at b-oasis. as per the website
              sorry kids but that is just plain too expensive. i found #2 diesel for $4.20 p-gallon.
              just wondering why they raised the price? i think the reality is that when crude goes up the price of just about every thing goes up.
              I want to support the bdiesel but theres gotta be some way to get the price down (besides buying 1000gallons at once)
              • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

                Wed, May 7, 2008 - 6:57 PM
                I was wondering if the bio fuel oasis price of fuel reflect the building of their new station? if so how much? and do they expect it to come down after settling into the new spot? if not , then why are the prices so high? and why do they seem to always stay just above #2?
                J.
                • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

                  Thu, May 8, 2008 - 9:06 AM
                  The price went up because the producers who work with waste oil raised their price. This happened because they both (Yokayo and Bentley I think) had some bad experiences running out of fuel due to being cheaper than diesel (also, methanol and KOH and electricity and steel and everything else keeps going up, though this isn't the biggest factor currently).

                  If they're lower than diesel (which by the way was at $4.50 at most gas stations in Berkeley when you wrote that cause I immediately tried to find myself some cheap diesel), then the 'cheap fuel' guys suck down the entire supply one day, and there isn't enough of it to supply the 'regular' customers who would be your business' predictable bread and butter.

                  Obviously the other option which I've suggested to Oasis is to have a membership option where your original, regular, loyal customers get one price and everyone who comes in during a diesel price spike gets a higher price to discourage that kind of bulk buying , or you cap the total number of gallons anyone can get so that the irregular customers aren't coming in with a 300 gallon tote , or both. Various biodiesel producers have explored that in the past, and there are problems with that model also. So everyone just raises prices a little bit higher than diesel to discourage the 'cheap fuel' kinds of customers.
                  You can't build a business around that kind of unpredictable customer base because you'd have to have an enormous biodiesel plant one month and then see all your demand vanish the next time prices go down (which they did last fall I think, which caused a loss of customers who went back to cheaper petroleum).

                  Also, having customers who only purchase based on price means that they tend to not take the time to learn about biodiesel use and they don't pay attention to things like filter clogging/solvency and cold weather issues (not a problem right now but was a problem when diesel prices spiked in fall 05 and lots of 'buying based on cheaper price' types of customers got stuck with gelled biodiesel going into winter) .


                  Remember, no one in the biodiesel production business is producing/distributing because of cheap prices- they're producing because they believe in helping lower emissions, keeping money in the farm economy rather than sending it abroad, or other reasons other than price. If you want to go into the biodiesel business to help people save money, then you start selling homebrewing equipment, or teaching workshops on how to make it, or doing farm-scale or fleet-scale biodiesel production consulting, or you put up a website on how to make biodiesel (and, like me, Jennifer of the Oasis actually does teach people how to make their own fuel even though that's technically competition for Oasos' business). Those business options actually make you (me, actually, that's what I do) a lot more money than making biodiesel or distributing biodiesel does.

                  If you go to the trouble of investing several million dollars in a factory (oasis does not make their own fuel), you're not doing so in order to save people money, as there's absolutely no business model where that makes sense (other than maybe some kind of co-op models such as large ethanol plants sometimes use, which doesn't really exist in the biodiesel industry).


                  Remember, you've got options when it comes to this fuel. You can make it yourself. Tons of people who run businesses where they really have to count their labor costs and so forth have figured out how to make it work for them. So it's not like, say, the rising cost of steel or natural gas affecting your bottom line, where you don't really have options other than what the industry decides to charge you- in this particular case, you really do have the option of lowering costs yourself. If when you started using biodiesel someone had told you that you can buy it for less than diesel, then that's a different problem due to bad information, as it's almost never been cheaper than diesel other than during temporary flukes like what we discussed above.

                  I saw your electric motorcycle (which is fucking impressive by the way) so I know that you have the skills to do this. If you dont have time, then you're at the mercy of the marketplace which is unfortunately affected by things like the 'cheap fuel' opportunists who would only buy biodiesel to save money rather than for the reasons why you probably use it.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

                    Fri, May 9, 2008 - 11:16 AM
                    > there's absolutely no business model where that makes sense

                    I don't think there is any proven business model that makes sense to sell a commodity for anything more or less than the going price for that commodity. In this case, biodiesel isn't differentiated from diesel in terms of being a commodity and likely will always track the price of #2.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

                    Sun, May 11, 2008 - 12:19 AM
                    The other thing to consider here is the fact that the production of biodiesel has much lower profit margins than crude. Crude has a much larger distribution infrastructure, produces dozens of products, and isn't tied to a food commodity.

                    I'm confused as to why alternative fuel should be inexpensive? Part of the problem in this country is OVER-consumption. Making bio-fuels inexpensive just perpetuates this problem.

                    While petrol fuel travels across the country in pipelines to distribution points around the country and is short haul trucked to your local fuel station.

                    Biodiesel on the other hand travels by train tanks, and river barges and trucks to your local station. For BQ9000 certified fuels those tanks need to be cleaned between uses. Fuel needs to be tested from point to point to verify that its still within spec and the best methods for transport indicate that the fuel is kept warm from point of manufacture, through distribution and up until its dispensed into your vehicle. These distribution costs add up and take an already slim profit margin and thin it further.

                    Biodiesel from virgin stock produces oil, animal feed and glycerine. In many cases the profit margins from the feed and glycerine are higher than that from fuel production. Biodiesel from waste stock produces fuel and glycerine. Prior to the big push for biodiesel WVO was used in animal feed. Competition for WVO is increasing and in some areas theft of oil from collection containers and actual theft of the containers is becoming a serious problem.

                    The best thing that can happen with higher fuel prices is that biodiesel producers increase their profits. Increased profits means they can afford to make sure that a quality product is delivered to you every time. More green collar jobs are created and capacity expands. Hopefully someday soon better technologies like oil from algae come online and investors will be eager to invest in an industry that isnt only successful because of dependence on government subsidy. Then maybe we can have our own green pipelines distributing carbon neutral fuels and eliminating the current dependence on less efficient means.



        • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

          Sat, March 22, 2008 - 6:08 PM
          The supply and demand of #2 is orders of magnitude greater than biodiesel. It seems that any time the price of #2 exceeds the price of biodiesel, demand quickly catches up and prices quickly go up. I think that's just the nature of things. I generally run B20 that I get pick up from Rotten Robbie in the South Bay. The last time I filled it prices were in parity with #2. I have seen it a couple of cents cheaper at the same station. The folks at biofuel oasis are cool, but I don't make it by there very often. I'm eagerly awaiting their new station.
          • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

            Sun, March 23, 2008 - 10:07 AM
            i can believe the supply and demand would raise the price of bd, but what is really going on (correct me if I am wrong an you can prove it) is that farmers who produce oil bearing crops run their farm equipment on #2 , including combines and delivery rigs.
            its too bad they cant run exclusively on bd, of course if they did, the price would go up too.
            when the bio fuel oasis gets their new station, I would like to hear about on this tribe.
            • Re: Biofuel Oasis in Berkeley

              Mon, March 31, 2008 - 11:44 AM
              I wrote up something on my blog about this:

              www.girlmark.com/blog/index.php



              I just had a cool conversation with Jennifer Radtke from Biofuel Oasis about pricing, and their involvement, or lack thereof, in the petroleum market. There had been a raging debate on one semi-local biodiesel forum about pricing of diesel, and we were all speculating that Oasis will soon raise their price, as they’re currently selling B99 lower than the price of diesel.

              At the moment, they’re getting their fuel from Bentley Biofuels in Minden NV (200 miles away) and Yokayo Biofuels in Ukiah (100 miles away), and like everyone else in town, they’re hoping, praying, and crossing their fingers that Oakland-based Blue Sky Biodiesel starts producing fuel for sale soon. Yokayo and Bentley both make recycled-restaurant-oil fuel, which makes sense for Yokayo since there’s no oilseed farming to speak of in California (OK, maybe cottonseed oil, but it’s not a major player). Both of those producers fuel all their vehicles with biodiesel, and pick up restaurant oil using biodiesel-fueled collections trucks. Bentley uses solar hot water in part of their process, further insulating them from the global energy market.

              Jennifer said that the producers indicated they’re not raising prices (at the moment anyway) and that this means that Biofuel Oasis has ‘arrived’ at the success story of being independent of the diesel supply pricing. They’re currently selling B99 below the price of petrodiesel. Obviously two things can go wrong:

              1) a distributor can get ’sucked dry’ by customers who are only interested in biodiesel temporarily, while the price is low. Business like this is terrible for planning- you can’t build a distributorship or a production plant with large capacity for these temporary ‘rush’ customers, who will vaporize as soon as market forces raise the price again. Running out of fuel is even more terrible for your loyal regular customers. Most biodiesel vendors have dealt with this before at times of diesel price surge, and this means that biodiesel prices are almost always kept higher than diesel to prevent the ‘rush’ on the biodiesel. Piedmont Biofuels is struggling with this terribly right now.

              2) the other concern is of course that customers who shop only for price, ie those who don’t regularly use biodiesel, will fill up without getting properly educated about the special needs of biodiesel, such as filter clogging or cold weather use. Here in the Bay Area there’s no real concern about cold weather at this time, but drive 200 miles to Nevada and you’re in serious trouble this time of year. Of course the whole point of distributorships like Biofuel Oasis is that they do the new customer education and hand-holding that you can’t possibly get by just selling biodiesel via a regular petroleum company convenience store, where the minimum-wage kids working behind the counter can’t possibly provide that service, and you’re stuck hoping that the customer reads the brochure or warning signs that you put up. In 2005 there was a serious problem with cold weather-related issues catching new biofuel drivers unaware due to the fact that gas prices spiked in the fall.

              While we don’t know that problem #1 won’t surface once word gets out that Oasis has cheaper fuel, and force Oasis/the producers to raise prices, for the moment, we’re certainly dealing with one really nice thing here. By working with local/distributed sources of biodiesel feedstock and because the producers and distributors have tried hard to be independent of the petroleum supply markets, we’re temporarily seeing them be insulated from the recent price spikes. The money being spent on this biodiesel stays almost entirely local.