the price of fuel is scary. average of 22 cents more than yuma.
anomoly. at arizona petroleum.. the distributor for bio here. i can buy b99 for 3.24 , while b20, b5 and 'regular' are 3.45....... sooooo, a 34 gallon truck tank, a 50 gal auxillary, and 4-5 gal totes..... over 300bucks to fill up. ouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch.
anomoly. at arizona petroleum.. the distributor for bio here. i can buy b99 for 3.24 , while b20, b5 and 'regular' are 3.45....... sooooo, a 34 gallon truck tank, a 50 gal auxillary, and 4-5 gal totes..... over 300bucks to fill up. ouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch.
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Arizona
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Re: bio prices
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 3:56 PMStrange price fluctuations here as well. Running almost $4/g now. (SF area)
Homebrew time.
(Finally did some initial research on cost of production, and it appears that homebrew should come in between $1 - $1.5 per gallon. That's more like it.) -
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Re: bio prices
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 4:33 PM> Strange price fluctuations here as well. Running almost $4/g now. (SF area)
Same here (Seattle).
I live on an island (with no bridge, only ferry access) and that imposes another "island tax" onto things. But I'm pretty sure local Seattle prices are near $4.00 for B100. I'm running B20 now (for the winter) and that helps a bit but summer is going to be expensive.
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Re: bio prices
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 7:51 PMyes, but the odd thing, i thought was that the b99 was 21 cents CHEAPER. than the other grades. -
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Re: bio prices
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 8:01 PM>> yes, but the odd thing, i thought was that the b99
>> was 21 cents CHEAPER. than the other grades.
Really? Certainly not here.
With the exception of a few weeks here and there B100 has *always* been more expensive than straight diesel. Which, of course, means that blends of BD and standard diesel are almost always cheaper: you replace perrcentages of the more expensive BD with the cheaper diesel.
Curious that this is not the case in your area.
I should probably note that is commercially produced (and ASTM certified) BD out of the midwest. Very high quality stuff, but not exactly the most eco-way to produce BD (like waste oil recycling).
- grey -
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Re: bio prices
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 9:03 AMthis is commercial production, soybean feedstock. not recycled stuffffffffffff. .
even with 'standards' i am not 100% SURE of the stuff made from frier oils.
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Re: bio prices
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 5:09 PMIn Arcata, California B100 from recycled cooking oil is $4 per gallon.
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Re: bio prices
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 10:23 AMAs prices for #2 rise it is likely that the demand for biodiesel will rise as the price delta becomes less significant or even discounted relative to #2. The market and supply chain for #2 is orders of magnitude larger than the market and supply chain for biodiesel. I imagine that relatively small market shifts could have a tremendous impact on the biodiesel industry. -
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Re: bio prices
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 11:42 AMYah, I figure the equation works something like that, too.
Standard diesel goes up. BD looks "cheaper" in comparison (or at least less cost-prohibitive) and because of this there's a huge spike in demand as more people use BD simply because of the cost benefit (or the reduce cost penalty). And all those new people buying BD increases demand which spikes the BD price.
That's pretty much the pattern I've experienced here in Seattle for the last 4 years. It's fun because there's that short time-frame where standard-diesel has jumped in price, but the BD market hasn't quite felt the "effect" of the new demand from people making the switch. As a result, there are a few precious weeks (around here) every now and then when BD is cheaper than diesel.
Those are fun weeks.
- grey -
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Re: bio prices
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 12:57 PM> there's a huge spike in demand
To reiterate a point: "Huge" is certainly relative. It seems likely that even a small shift in the market for #2 will have a tremendous impact on the biodiesel market. I tend to follow a lot of different groups and forums and have seen an increased interest in biodiesel among people that wouldn't normally consider the environmental impact of the fuel they run. People are generally pragmatic about these sorts of things. -
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Re: bio prices
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 2:23 PM>To reiterate a point: "Huge" is certainly relative. It seems likely that even
> a small shift in the market for #2 will have a tremendous impact on the biodiesel market.
Yup. Was not using "huge" in any sort of absolute sense. It's relative. A tiny shift of the petro-diesel market is a huge impact on the bd market.
> have seen an increased interest in biodiesel among people that wouldn't
> normally consider the environmental impact of the fuel they run. People
> are generally pragmatic about these sorts of things.
I see a spectrum of pragmatism.
There are those folks that are consider cost and nothing but cost. They'll look to BD when it's cheaper and never before.
At the other end are the folks like myself (and you?) that willingly pay a price-premium for whatever "good" they feel they are doing (or guilt they are alleviating).
And then there's everybody across the middle. I wouldn't say that everybody is "pragmatic" in the sense that they all only consider cost. A lot of people I know want to do a "good" thing, they just don't want to sacrifice too much for it. For those types of "pragmatic" folks I find that BD doesn't have to be cheaper, necessarily, it just has to come at a cost-penalty that is acceptable for them. That acceptable cost penalty is different for different folks.
My point here is that "huge" is not the only thing that's relative. "Pragmatism" is relative as well.
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Re: bio prices
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 3:14 PM> My point here is that "huge" is not the only thing that's relative. "Pragmatism" is relative as well.
Indeed. I tend to run whatever I feel like at the time, depending on what's available. Anything from straight #2 to B99. Cost can be an issue at >$100 per fill up, but it's not a great consideration for me. One of the issues that I face is the locational availability of biodiesel in the SF bay area. It seems that biofuels oasis has the market in and around Oakland, which is in an area that I don't like to drive to. I sometimes pick up a tank of B20 from Rotten Robbie in the south bay. I'm hoping they start selling it at other locations.
Making it is certainly a possibility that I am considering.
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Re: bio prices
Thu, January 24, 2008 - 8:05 PMWe retail B99.9 from 3 different sources, all of which have gone up 40 cents in the last 2 months. We were same as #2 diesel for about a week at $3.59, but as diesel has fallen 20 cents, we will soon have to retail for $3.99 and that is cutting our measly 10% margin.
Reasons I've heard from distributors include, 300% increase in methanol prices (used for production of bio), record high soy bean and corn prices, and ever increasing demand outpacing supply. Oregon has implemented a renewable fuels standard requiring B2 in NW counties and by Fall all over Oregon. Many others are following suit, Safeway just went B20, so demand is definitely increasing.
Strange thing is that many bio companies are going broke or failing in their IPO's (Earth Biofuels, Imperium, REG), so I think the people making the money are the agri-business producers of the raw materials. We kept assuming the price increases were just speculative and based on #2 diesel pricing, but now that we're out of the ballpark of that figure, we realize it may actually be based on commodity pricing, not profiteering by biodiesel middle men and processors. If you can figure out the logic of fuel pricing, you deserve a Nobel prize.
Bottom line is we need more local production, diversified and recycled feedstocks, algae research, and decentralized systems of production and distribution to escape the price sqeeze of agribusiness and oil companies. -
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Re: bio prices---phoenix
Thu, January 24, 2008 - 9:58 PMjust came to phoenix today. called the retailer here. 3.34 for b99. today 01-24-08
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